Mango & Gnocchi Ep. 3: Kitchari & Ghee with Rukmini Poddar
Join us around the table and listen in on our conversation with author and illustrator Rukmini Poddar. We're talking food, feelings & how drawing helps us be in relationship with our emotions.
Welcome, friends! Pull up a chair and join us as we speak with Rukmini Poddar; an artist, designer, and educator who is both visionary and down-to-earth. Her creative passion lies at the intersection of emotional wellness and creative storytelling.
In this episode, Rukmini gives us a window into her creative process and how we can transform grief, anxiety, and sadness by welcoming a childlike curiosity in ourselves. The edge of outward expression is tempered with Rukmini’s comfort food— a warm bowl of kitchari topped with golden ghee.
Enjoy the episode!
Rukmini Poddar is the author of Draw Your Feelings: A Creative Journal to Help Connect with Your Emotions through Art, published by Penguin Random House. She has found her creative voice in participating in the #100DayProject for over 9 consecutive years and has grown her instagram community to over 100,000 followers. She is best known for her drawings that give life to her emotions. She teaches people how to draw their emotions and leads workshops with corporate teams, schools, and large gatherings of over 400+ people.
Roshni:
You're listening to the Mango and Gnocchi Podcast. I'm Roshni.
Rebecca:
And I'm Rebecca. And we're asking the question, what is your grief craving? We are both nurses, grief experts and avid home cooks. We’re the founders of Marigolde, a grief wellness platform rooted in food, culture and rituals.
Roshni:
We created the Mango and Gnocchi Podcast to highlight the power of our collective food stories. Stories that nurture us, bring us joy, and take us out of our minds and into our hearts.
Rebecca:
Today, we're joined by Rukmini Poddar, who's an artist, designer and educator. And she's also the author of a brand new book called Draw Your Feelings: A Creative Journal to Help Connect with Your Emotions Through Art. Rukmini is well known on Instagram for her drawings, that give life to her emotions. She also teaches people how to draw their emotions, and leads beautiful workshops, connecting with their emotions through art. Welcome, Rukmini. Please tell us a little bit about yourself.
Rukmini:
Hi, my name is Rukmini Poddar, and I am an artist, illustrator and designer. And I really love to say that my passion lies at this intersection of emotional mental health and creative storytelling.
Roshni:
Hey, Rukmini, thank you so much for being here. I'm so excited to talk to you about everything— our food, emotions, storytelling. It's so beautiful; when I attended your workshop recently with the Dinner Party of how you were able to talk about feelings and all these really hard concepts, but in such a beautiful way. I was just so touched, and I thought, we have to have Rukmini on the podcast. So, I'm so glad you're able to make time for us.
Rukmini:
Thank you.
Rebecca:
Rukmini, as you know, our podcast highlights stories of food and grief. And I was wondering if you would be willing to tell us a story from your life when you felt like a specific food or recipe, or even the act of cooking in some way, carried you through your grief.
Rukmini:
I grew up in a Indian household. My parents were from India, they migrated to America just a few months before I was born in 1992. And so that tradition is a really big part of my life and my background, navigating that hyphenated identity being American, being South Asian, Indian. And food is of course, a huge part of my background. Food is comfort, food is love.
At least for me, when I think of a specific food a lot come to mind, but everything is home cooked and something made by my mom. I would say the staple Indian food of kitchari is something that comes to mind. For people who don't know, kitchari is like the staple stew, that lentil rice stew; it can be made in thousands of ways, probably all different kinds of ways all over India.
It was something I ate if I was sick, or if I needed to feel nourished. As a kid I would often complain about eating it because it was so— it was almost like, oh you only eat this when you're sick, like… why do I want to eat kitchari again? It's like that yellowy stew with lots of vegetables, it's almost like too healthy to enjoy. But when I think back on that particular food I just see throughout my life and different times, even living on my own and wanting to cook something for the first time, it's like okay, let's cook kitchari. It's so easy— just throw the rice and the lentils in the instapot and create it. So I would say that food, it just brings me back home and it reminds me of these different phases of my life. I cook it all the time actually because it's so easy and healthy. But it reminds me of my mom, it reminds me of my childhood, and it reminds me of feeling cared for. It's like, this cares for my body, but it's always being cooked by someone who I know really loves me too.
Roshni:
Okay, most important question is how much ghee do you put on your kitchari?
Rukmini:
Oh my God, that’s the best question! Now, I use so much ghee. Actually, my husband, he constantly uses ghee in everything. He's really interested in bringing Ayurveda into his meals, so he'll literally wake up and eat like a spoonful of ghee, which for me that's too much! But I am learning to love ghee, as it’s this amazing… oh yeah, it's so good. But there was a period of time where I was like “No, ghee is fattening, and no, I don't do fats.” I'll just make everything really healthy. And so I would skimp on ghee and butter. I wouldn't put it on my roti’s, my chapati’s, but I'm learning—so, I love my ghee now.
Roshni:
Yeah, I feel like ghee is like the ultimate grandma cure. It's like, put it on your lips, put it on your body, drink it, slather it everywhere. I love that.
Rukmini:
Yeah, it's like liquid gold.
Roshni:
Exactly. Congratulations, because you have a new book coming out. I want to talk a little bit about your book, Draw Your Feelings, and hear about your art practice and how you connect grief through art and storytelling. Because I think for a lot of our listeners, we think of grief as this very intellectual process where you talk about your feelings. But your approach is so unique and creative, I'd love for you to describe how can we connect our feelings, through art and through storytelling, and almost visualize it and feel it in our body?
Rukmini:
Thank you so much. First of all, the way you described it, actually, I could feel that in my body. That emotions— it's embodied. It’s energy inside of us. And like you said, talking can help, but there's so many other ways to connect with our emotions. And for me, to be able to draw has been my way of expressing my voice. Ever since I was young, I was always attracted to being creative. I would doodle all the time in school and I think I was a bit of a shy, quiet kid. I still am in so many ways. And so for me, writing and drawing was my outlet.
My practice over the years has developed into this method of expressing my emotions through art. I find that it gives language and voice to emotions that we otherwise don't have the language for. And again, sometimes a certain feeling almost feels limited when we use language, or we don't have the full vocabulary. And so I find that I can just pull out some markers, and use different colors, and lines, and shapes, and all these basic elements of visual language, suddenly, I'm able to almost take that big emotion that's inside of me, and separate myself from it. And I think that's the essence of this practice.
And like it is any mindfulness practice, you take what's there, and you give yourself some distance, and in that space, be able to see that I am not my emotions, I have them, but I'm not controlled by them, I could see them and, and it's quite magical. Actually, once you have that distance, you can offer compassion to that emotion, you can speak to it, you can engage with it in a really dynamic, creative way. I would say that's, that's a lot what I get from it, and why I love this practice, and I really believe in it too.
Rebecca:
In what ways do you feel like the act of creativity, in any form that we use it in, transcends that mental process? What do you think it is, in our body?
Rukmini:
Creativity is so magical. I think everyone is blessed with creativity. I think of every child. And they all boldly declare they're an artist; completely into the creative process. And there's something that happens in all of our lives that when we grow up into adulthood, you really feel uneasy with that word artist, and creativity, we have a complicated relationship with them.
And you asked what is it about creativity that transcends the mind? And I think it's just that, that we focus a lot on our mind to answer questions— like our society, our culture is very thinking heavy. And so that's one area of intelligence, but we have the intelligence of the heart, and the intelligence of the body. Creativity can access those two intelligences. And it gives us a way to voice ourselves completely separate, and bypassing that thinking mind, so the mind will take us so far. But when we dip into— whether it's dancing, or singing, or it's drawing and painting, we access that intuition that allows expression to really flow. You don't hamper it with almost too much reason and logic, like, “what does this mean?”, or “this emotion is unreasonable”. To think that the mind tells us to sort of block ourselves. I think when we create, we come from that place, the heart in the body. That's the superpower of creativity, that we can bypass the logical mind and create something really unique that we couldn’t think of, but that we have felt.
Rebecca:
Could you tell us, when you work with people on drawing your feelings, I imagine there's a lot of resistance there for some people who feel like "I'm not creative. I can't draw.” How do you help welcome them into that space of embracing their own creativity?
Rukmini:
A majority of people feel that way. I do a lot of workshops on drawing your feelings. And I always start, and I say, “who here is feeling a little uncomfortable with this, who here feels a little out of their comfort zone?” I get a lot of hands coming up, a little like giggles, a little like nervousness. And it's totally common. And I say “good, because you're my kind of people. If you're feeling nervous about this, that means you're going out of your comfort zone, you're trying something new.”
There's so many people who haven't picked up a paintbrush since they were children. And I think that itself, like you have not done that for years and you're coming into a space where you're doing that, it’s so healing, because you're accessing play, you're accessing that childhood memory. And what I always tell people is that really, that inner critic that we carry everywhere you go, for the next hour or so, we're going to take it out and leave it at the doorstep. And they can be there when you come back for it, but we're going to bypass that critic. We're gonna have fun and play. And I really encourage a beginner's mindset, that if you feel like a beginner, that's good. If you don't feel like a beginner, well then try to feel like a beginner. Because as a beginner's mindset, you allow yourself to play and to be curious and to have new experiences. And I think that's really key for this process.
Roshni:
I love that idea of playfulness, and having a beginner's mind, especially when we talk about grief. It can feel so adult and heavy, but bringing that playfulness just allows for you to be vulnerable. I'm wondering if you can talk a little bit about tapping into our vulnerability and seeing ourselves as these little children, or these little playful beings through our artwork. Because I think in the workshop you led, we were drawing, and connecting to our heart, and I could see this, what does my heart look like? It's not just obviously an anatomical heart. When I was trying to connect with that part of myself, I was imagining this really tender, tiny little being who loved to eat ice cream and mango, just that imagination took me there. I'm wondering, when you think of your own heart, what do you see? And what is that heart centered person craving? What are they needing in this moment?
Rukmini:
When I see and think of my own heart, I feel that I just want to give myself a hug and give my inner child — there’s just like immediate compassion, right? When we look at our hearts, or anyone's, you see everything, you see the tender spots, and you see the suffering. And I think both of that together is really important, because everyone is suffering in some way. And like you said, grief can feel like this big adult word, and it’s scary and we don't talk about that.
But also think about suffering, any type of suffering, it could just be the suffering of being bored or anxious, or the suffering of not knowing what to do with your day or you are confused about life. All of these emotions and feelings are really valid in the heart. And when you give yourself that space, to just draw it, draw the little colors. Maybe the black is the hurt and the pink is the love. You're putting these complicated, very nuanced feelings very, very simply. I think there's a magic to that. It's almost childlike. Children, they have such a capacity for such deep emotions and for such full presence, but they say and they live so simply, in a way they express themselves with that simplicity. And I think with some of these exercises of drawing your heart, drawing your feelings, you can access that simplicity. But okay, I have some colors, if I just grabbed some colors and blues, what do I feel? What does red mean to me?
So I think a playfulness comes, a simplicity comes. That ability to witness ourselves, our child self, to witness our suffering, to witness our joy. It's one of the greatest gifts that we can give ourselves.
Roshni:
I love the idea of painting and using color to really ground us. I’m wondering, since you’re an artist, if you were to create a painting of how you're feeling, to tap into your emotional body, right now, what would that look like?
Rukmini:
If I were to paint of how I'm feeling now in my emotional body, I would do a lot of little yellow-orange dots of this energy buzzing in me, a mix of both excitement and nervousness. I would do, my heart space—would be warm and pink and emanating joy. And I would feel also dark blues in my leg. That's some fears. That nervousness that comes. And I feel that there's always this polarity, this tension of both joy and fear at the same time. I'm learning to lean into it more and I'm learning in my art, that in art, you're able to really show that through however; lines, colors, that there's a tension, and that they can both coexist at the same time. And so it helps me settle into a moment that, I'm feeling both excited and grateful to be talking to you, that my book is coming out, everything that's happening and then there's also a little nervousness. There's also an ease about the future and settling into that.
Rebecca:
Thank you for answering that very multi layered question. That's a creative process in itself to think in so many different values, sensory values and mediums. Interesting what you're saying about how using creative faculties can bring you back to a place of being childlike. And having things come across as simple. And I'm imagining that it may start as simple. But once you're using that language of creativity, you're able to get more and more sophisticated with expressing your feelings. I’m just thinking about watching my children grow up, I have a six year old right now. And his drawings are suddenly getting very detailed, and his eyes are going from round eyeball shapes to more almond shaped and eyelashes. And he's building this vocabulary with his hands. And I imagine working with your emotions in this way, of not having to navigate language, and allowing yourself to just draw with your intuition, that your vocabulary grows and you're able to see more about your emotions. Do you see that in your work?
Rukmini:
Yeah, and that's a great example. So with your son and seeing the skills develop, I see that in my work, and I also I tried to design that in the book that's coming out also. Because the basic simple building blocks are the are the first part of it, and those building blocks of line, shape, texture, form, that you use throughout. You’ll see that evolve and get more sophisticated as you're really getting into the nuance of emotion. Yeah, I see that for myself. And I see that you can really build up as you express emotion.
So in the book, I have a chapter on using metaphor, taking metaphor and creating visual metaphors, or emotions as data, what does that look like? And then the whole second half of the book is all about relationships. So emotions as relation to myself, to others, to my values. And it's quite amazing, because you're still using the same building blocks, like the color, the shape, the form, but it's amazing what you can do to communicate, through art, that you can draw what a relationship looks like, and feels like. You can draw what your values look like, you can draw what acceptance looks like, it's just quite amazing. It never quite ends.
Rebecca:
How do you find that people comfort themselves after this process? Because I imagine just bringing emotions to the surface can be challenging. So I was just curious, what type of care do you offer? And what does comfort look like?
Rukmini:
It is true, it's different for everyone, when you're drawing your feelings. And in some ways, the drawing itself is an act of comfort, in a way, because you're really expressing, you're finding joy in it. And sometimes I leave it with that. But I have done workshops where I've offered a lot of journaling prompts at the end for people who feel more comfortable with that, that once you draw something, then you can take time to look at— what does this mean? What is it showing me? Sometimes using writing can really help.
And then I would say, I always find comfort in just being in nature and taking space. And this creative process, it's a way of taking space. But again, if emotions come up, take space from the creative process to go for a walk, get into your body. I mean, that's for me, just the number one thing, is getting into your body: breathing, stretching, moving, walking with your bare foot on the earth. I think it's a beautiful suggestion and reminder also, that even with our practices of care, to offer care in that too.
Roshni:
Rukmini, can you share a time in your life that you found to be surprising in a way? Obviously you're such a deeply intuitive person that is able to reflect and connect to your own emotions, but maybe a time where that was so overwhelming that you didn't know what was happening. I'm wondering how you were able to tap into your cultural roots, the ways in which your grandparents and your parents raised you, just tapping into that ancestral wisdom to navigate that time, even though you didn't know what was happening. I'd love to hear about that journey, and that process, even that discovery of ‘I don't know what's happening, but maybe I'll reach into these spaces’, our strength being connected to our culture.
Rukmini:
I'm trying to remember a time that I really leaned into my culture as almost like a source of shelter and connection. And like I said, just growing up in an Indian family, very spiritual background and practices. I've always had those anchors of my temple, and my spirituality and philosophy of the Gita and yoga, and growing up in a vegetarian family. There’s, so there's a lot of principles like ahimsa and even Ayurveda, my mom was really into, giving me all kinds of home recipes and things like that.
I would say that there was a time after I graduated college, I was 23, and I didn't quite want to go into a job. I graduated as a graphic designer, I was trained. And for some reason I wanted time to travel, to explore. And I remember I took a trip with my parents to India. I spent actually several months there, living in India. I saw my family, but we would take a lot of pilgrimages together, actually.
Growing up, we would go to different holy sacred places in India and spend time there. I remember being in that question of what do I want to do. I met a friend and was invited to come to Australia, and actually to help with something called a bus tour. I grew up almost doing the equivalent of a Christian summer camp where you get a bunch of kids on a bus and travel and you get together. So I did something similar in my own tradition and background. My friend invited me, she said, I'm doing something like that in Australia, you want to come and help?
I think that was quite an amazing time in life. Because I just went on this adventure, I met so many cool people, was like, way out of my comfort zone. And I still wasn't sure what I wanted to do in my life. I was quite confused in that way. I got into a relationship that was long distance. All that time, all that stuff that happened there in my 20’s.
I remember coming back to India and spending some time there. I was staying in this beautiful sacred village called Mayapur in West Bengal. And I remember the traditions and I remember feeling that sense of shelter like, well, this is my spiritual background. I loved the Bengali food, and I remember, my parents were there at the time.
I also connected to my art, and that's where I discovered something called the 100 Day Project, where I really leaned into it. I started to just sketch in my sketchbook, every day for as much as I could. It ended up being this way for me to channel my emotions and to draw what I was feeling. So it was a mix of being in India, spending a lot of time, being close to family, finding some of that connection and my own spiritual roots, and then ultimately expressing it through my art work in this format of the 100 Day Project.
Looking back, and I haven't thought about it for a while, I think that was quite a turning point. Because it's those times in life where we're living in a question where like, what do I do? We're like in this weird pause. Do I go back to school? Do I go on more adventures, do I travel? And I think that pause for me was was really important.
Roshni:
The word tapasya comes to me when you say that, like the 100 Day Project of— I don't know how I would translate that from Sanskrit. I think it just means like this dedication, right? A daily practice.
Rukmini:
I love that word, tapasya. I've also translated it as austerity or discipline. And it's almost like taking on something uncomfortable for something you're working towards. That's how I've heard it been explained. Similar to discipline. That we take on a sort of tapasya because you have a certain goal in mind, and you move forward with it. So I really love that.
It's so interesting that I've done the 100 Day Project many times now. It's been almost eight years, I've at least attempted it. And I have to be honest, I don't consider myself a disciplined person, actually. It’s one of my weaknesses. It's something I'm really working on. And some people won't believe me, but that's the reason why I do it. Especially as creatives, we sort of like fly by our inspiration. But that added bit of discipline is where we like actually manifest and create things and put into the world, that’s like the power behind it. So yeah, I think getting a taste of that discipline, that tapasya, was really powerful for me. And that's something I tried to bring back into my life, to really bring my ideas and my thoughts and feelings and I manifest it into projects in the real world.
Rebecca:
Can you explain to our listeners in case they don't know what that 100 Day Project is?
Rukmini:
So the 100 Day project is a global art project. It happens all over the world, it happens online. And it's been going on for many years, even way before I started. And very simply, you choose something that you want to do and create every day for 100 days. And if possible, you share it online for that extra accountability and for that encouragement, and it can really be anything. I mean, you can draw for 100 days, you could cook, you could call a friend, you can dance around, you can make music, it's supposed to get us out of our heads, out of our perfectionist ways of being and just like move into motion. So it's really exciting.
You can just search 100 Day Projects, see tons of things that people have done. And for me, it's just given me some of the biggest lessons in creativity, which is the power of quantity over quality. At times, Julia Cameron says this in her book, The Artist’s Way, I love it. She says that, if I just show up with the quantity, the quality will eventually show up too. It's a really great way to think about creating is that our job— I can't control the quality all the time. I can do my best. But I can't control that I'm going to make something amazing, but I can control my quantity. That if I show up every day, whether it's good or bad, that's my part. That's my job. And then the creative force, the geniuses buzzing around me, they will provide the quality when the time is ripe for it.
Rebecca:
It takes off a lot of the pressure, and allows you to be in a co-creating space.
Rukmini:
Yes, it allows us to feel that it's not just on our shoulders. And again, as a creative of any sort. That's a huge pressure that we put on ourselves.
Roshni:
Would a hundred days of eating and documenting count?
Rukmini:
Absolutely! You should do it! That sounds like a fantastic 100 Day project.
Roshni:
Right? We ask on our podcast, what is your grief craving? And that can have this connotation of literally what food are you craving in this moment, especially in terms of us being in emotional bodies, especially as you talk about drawing your emotions. We come at it from a lens of food, what is your body craving? What food is it craving, but also what practices, what rituals? I wonder how you would answer that? What is your grief craving? And also, maybe if you can talk a little bit about, is there some grief, it doesn't have to be a loss of a loved one. But something you have been carrying through your life, maybe it's yours, or you've inherited it, it doesn't go away, right? But you can give a little, pour a little ghee for it, or water it, or paint for it. So we'd love to hear about that.
Rukmini:
I'm learning slowly, more about grief. I think I've also for a long time had this idea that grief is just a really huge pain. It's a loss of someone, it's like this really overwhelming suffering. And for the longest time, I felt that I haven't experienced grief, I haven't had a loss, I haven't gone through something really hard. And I'd almost have this comparative suffering with others, that wow, my friend went through something so terrible, or her mom passed from cancer, but that never happened to me. And so I have nothing to feel sad about and almost stopping myself from even accessing grief, because I felt that I didn't have a valid enough reason to feel that. And I think that itself is a type of grief.
And I'm realizing that it's quite, it's a lot more universal than I realized, people feeling invalidated for their suffering or comparing it to others and feeling like oh, I don't have enough to feel sad about. But also, like you said, grief shows up in so many ways, just like our way of being, or belief systems we've carried, or things from previous generations even. I’m thinking, what feels alive for me right now. And I've been thinking about the grief of playing it small for so much of my life, not expressing my voice, not stepping into my power, doubting myself, shrinking in spaces that I want to stand up in, assuming that I'm invisible, that's just been so much of my life. Which again, is interesting, when you look at my, my public persona, if you look at my art, it's so much. I have like 100,000 followers, and a successful book. And that's both amazing and interesting that on the inside, though, there's so much of this energy of shrinking.
My journey, where I'm at, is trying to take up space. And it's very hard. I feel it in my voice, I feel it in my body. If I were to tap into a type of grief, it would be allowing that, allowing that smallness, and feeling that man, I've shrunk for so long. And I really denied a lot of my emotions. So my journey of drawing my emotions, because for so long, I was numb to them. It wasn't that I was always this emotionally expressive kid. Growing up in a family where we don't really talk about emotion, we don't have emotion that, you know, we'd haven't had a valid enough reason to feel suffering. So all of that just becomes numb. And so I think growing up now, it's Oh, the grief I feel is for the young version of me. That felt small, that felt incapable, that felt very repressed in her anger, in her feelings and sensuality, all these big feelings that, that's I think a grief that feels alive in me right now that I'm tending to.
Roshni:
Oh, I so resonate with that. I'm entering my late 30’s, almost early 40’s. And it feels like I think it's this deep anger, but also so much sadness, of what was I seeking permission for. How did I learn to be so small, and just shut myself down? And you can kind of keep asking that question. But yeah, to feel so hard to be big. We almost don't know how to take up space because what we see, at least the way I've seen social media, you know, where people are claiming space, it feels like it doesn't feel true to me and how people are modeling that. So I'd love to kind of follow that up with, how are you taking up space and feeling that power, but in a way that feels true to you, safe to you? Because the thought of making reels every day, and taking all these sultry photos in your bikini. That's one way to feel powerful. But it also feels so frightening. So wonder how can I feel like I'm this introverted extrovert. How can people like us shine, but in a way that doesn't feel unsafe at the same time?
Rukmini:
I'm feeling that power and bigness in my body — almost want to move my shoulders a little bit and be like—how do we access that? That big space in a very authentic way, so it feels real and safe for us. And everyone has different ways of doing it. But I think in the end, as well, I don't want it to be performative. And social media is simply a platform. That's what I've learned.
I've had a love /hate relationship with social media for years. Because it can feel like you only thrive on social media when it's performative, and you're following trends, and you're succeeding, and that's so cringey. But at the same time, it's not always like that. What's keeping me safe seeing my own social media grow, is that people want honesty, people want realness. And I think a great way of claiming space, or one that I do, is just being honest. The more honest, the more real, the more of whatever's really deeply personal for me, is going to be universal for others. And for me that actually feel safe. And, and it's not just a vulnerability, that's a little too much. It's enough that I get to an essential core of the human experience.
When I share about my personal grief of playing it too small, that’s deeply personal, and yet, knowing that so many other people resonate with it, especially women, or women of color, like that suddenly feels a very real way for me to take up space. And also space that includes others. I think that’s a really big value of mine, that if I want to rise big, if I want to do things that really elevate my voice, I want to bring others along, like it just doesn't feel right, at least for me, a personal value. I'm the one who's up here killing it at life and doing great and others aren't. It's like, No, I want I really wanted us all to be there. And that that feels very authentic and real and satisfying for me.
Rebecca:
I really appreciate that you took that question, “what is your grief craving”, and turned it around to what you crave, what grief you crave. Because so often, we can’t even access our grief, like you said. I also really resonate with that sense of feeling small and shrinking yourself, and to the point where you actually understand yourself as invisible.
I just want to give you a reflection, because the way that I'm seeing you and hearing your story, is that you tend to choose the brave option, and you choose the unknown, over the prescribed path. When you told us this story about not knowing what you wanted to do in your life, when you were 23, and you went to India, and you had this opportunity in front of you to just join this bus journey in Australia, that's incredibly brave.
I think a lot of people would choose something much safer. And even with your career, you didn't choose to be a paid, behind the computer graphic designer, you chose to go into the unknown world of creativity and explore what that holds for you. And you did really bring everyone along with you. I just want to reflect that to you because it's so brave, and it's so vulnerable. What you're doing, let's talk about, well not even talk, but let's explore our emotions through art. You can do it, I can do it. We can all do this together. It's really beautiful.
Rukmini:
Thank you so much. Thank you, Rebecca, that's really, really touching to be reflected like that. And I've been realizing recently that we all need mirrors. We all need people to show us a part so we can grow, but what we're doing right. I have a big blind spot personally for what I'm doing right. So I appreciate that being mirrored. And yeah, being brave shows up in so many ways. We wouldn't always think that this is what being brave is but stepping into what is unknown in life for something that could be really great, that great potential life, I think is really important to me. And I think I really am trying to do that and wanting to encourage others to do that too.
Roshni:
I love that idea of looking for a mirror, and modeling. I'm wondering how did you learn to care for yourself, to nurture and love yourself, because I feel like you don't learn that as a child. You again, observe and see how people are doing it. It's a little bit fraught, especially for me, I grew up partly in India, partly in the US, and that idea of nurturing and care was very complex. Some of it was really beautiful, the cultural practices we have. But there's also a lot of toxicity. I think that's also cultural and individual, in terms of how we treat ourselves how we see ourselves and this idea of being productive and being successful. So I'm wondering, how did you learn and also unlearn to love and care and nurture yourself?
Rukmini:
Roshni, you have some great questions. They’re like stopping me in my tracks, like, this is so good. They’re like this deep, existential, like, whoa— I am taking care of myself. When did that happen? Yeah, I'm gonna have to think about that. But just the overall question itself is so rich, and again, coming from my cultural background, because I have— I think it is in my culture, taking care of ourselves, but then also like, unhealthy ways of being too selfless. And martyrdom is definitely there.
Sometimes I still question myself, is what I'm doing almost selfish? And just thinking about myself and my career and upping my, what I'm doing in my work in the world. And maybe I'm choosing what I'm doing, because I'm conditioned to help, help, help people. And where is that balance of I'm really doing what inspires my heart, my soul? And the question of where did I learn to care for myself?
I think it comes from, well, now just being 30, I’m still on that journey. I think it's been so many different varieties, people, there has been from my family, my parents, and then there's also been things to unlearn, tuning into my own heart and voice and what I like to do, and not just doing what is expected of me, I think that's an important one. But I in the last few years, I've really just connected with some wonderful people and teachers.
I have lived for five years in New York, and I was living at a meditation and yoga studio, sort of doing graphic design, but also just part of the community. And it was, this really amazing, spiritual co-op space where I was working there, but also working for my rent. So I was living in this really cool community. And that's where I got to deepen my own, but also like yoga, more than just the asana of yoga. But learning that yoga is about like, connecting the body and the breath and tending and eating, what you eat is how you express yourself. And so I learned more about Ayurveda food there.
For those four years or so, it was quite pivotal for me, being with people who were living what they taught, living this sense of really helping others means helping yourself first, and you can't give from an empty cup. And doing these things that I was seeing in practice, from the food to the meditation, again, that tapasya, that discipline, living with people who would meditate one to two hours every day, and worship in the temple and serve. I would say that was a big part of my journey also, and it moves me away from the more traditional, I'm gonna work in like a marketing, corporate place. And it's like, well, maybe I can do something off the beaten path. Maybe I can bring all these interests together, and I have some value that I can give to the world through this experience.
Rebecca
I hear that you're very much in process, but you've made it so far. And it reminds me of the way that you talked about kitchari and ghee. It's like this bowl of nourishment and care. And it's so intensely good for you, that it almost makes you resistant to it. And you're still coming around to that to accepting that much nourishment for yourself.
Rukmini:
Oh my god. Yeah, that's definitely a relationship actually, is just accepting the good things in life accepting what's healthy. I see myself in process of that. But I love the kitchari reminder because I think that's a great analogy of this really healthy love, loving bowl of food that sometimes I resist and sometimes I want only when I'm sick. And now I want to create it all the time. And I would say that's my relationship with a lot of these tools from creativity to yoga, to spirituality.
Roshni:
Can you talk us through how you make your kitchari because yes, it is so different from, do you put like curry leaves or do you put jeera or do you not, and how do you eat it? So we'd love to hear how you make it and how you eat it.
Rukmini:
Oh my god. Yes, I make it really simply. I do everything in the Instant Pot right now. Whatever is fast and quick is good. I'll use just the regular mung lentils and sometimes rice, sometimes quinoa. If I'm thinking a little bit extra healthy, I'll throw in quinoa instead. And usually, I've put a good scoop of ghee with some hing and jeera, and then I'll throw in my ginger. And then if I'm feeling fancy, like maybe some curry leaves. I don't have it all the time, but I'll just leave it simple. And I throw in a lot of veggies. I cut some carrots and potatoes, some peas, and my rice and lentils and then just let it cook. It's my go-to when I'm really busy and I just put everything in the Instapot, and I know I can come back to it. I will say the other day I made it, and I don't know if it's either sacrilege or brilliant, but I ate it with tortilla chips. And I was like, this is amazing!
Roshni:
The best dip ever.
Rukmini:
It was the best. Okay, you got that little bit of crunch. I was like, wow, okay, we're doing this more often.
Roshni:
I love it. Like, kitchari as finger food. Yeah. And the crispy right? The crispy is very important.
Rukmini:
Yes. It is.
Rebecca:
I absolutely love hearing all the textures and flavors, and that, that’s your go-to food. When you need something quick, that’s the best option.
Rukmini:
And really, you can just keep adding more things to it. And now that I've done tortilla chips, I’m like, what can't I do? Like what else can I add to make it more interesting?
Roshni:
Kitchari— you can make it, I'm thinking of arancini balls— you roll them, like an Italian rice ball, maybe we'll roll it and then put in bread crumbs and either air fry or deep fry, and stuff it with something inside.
Rebecca:
Can we try that?
Rukmini:
Please do! This is why I love being friends with chefs and cooks. Because you guys have a complete— like bringing so much creativity to food. That sounds fantastic. I had this idea of doing some kind of Draw Your Feelings with food… or, I'm sure this has been done before, but creating different foods for different emotions. And what does this emotion look like as food, that would just be so interesting. And then to eat it. So it would be very simple.
Roshni:
We should talk more. I love that idea.
Rebecca:
Yeah, let’s do this!
Roshni:
Yeah, let's let's do it. Marigolde and Rukmini. I love that idea. As we're slowly coming to wrap our conversation up, we're asking people, what inspires you, what are you inspired by in this moment, either for creating or receiving, especially with all these big questions. We're all grappling with the world the way it is, how do you actively create hope and paint hope for yourself?
Rukmini:
One thing I will always come back to is nature. This isn't something I've done for a while. But I'm just so inspired by like the beauty of nature. And I moved recently to the Bay Area. And it's just so gorgeous. Like everywhere you look, you see cliffs and oceans and redwoods. And my one of my favorite things to do is to bring a sketchbook and to just paint that moment that I see. So instead of just typically capturing it with a photo, is being really mindful with it, and painting it out. For me, that disconnection from the everyday hustle and bustle and going into a peaceful place. And practicing that presence, it really fills me up. And it does remind me of hope, being in nature in that way.
Roshni:
Is there a favorite hiking trail or a place you like to go, in the Bay Area?
Rukmini:
Yeah, I'm still discovering so many places. But there is I think it's Land’s End in San Francisco, like the very edge of San Francisco. Yeah, maybe you've seen or been there and so gorgeous. I'm also learning to love the fog, and the very interesting climate of the area. I think, Karl the Fog, that's what they call it here. I grew up in Florida, so I’m used to sunshine all the time, and big hot weather. And so this is different, but it's very unique. There's a different personality to different weather, weather patterns and climates. And so I'm learning to really love the mood of the fog and all the different all the different environments out here.
Rebecca:
I love that. It's definitely a completely new relationship with the land. I know the first time I went to San Francisco, I was like, wow, this is not what I was expecting. It's so beautiful and mysterious. And like you said the fog is something to get used to.
Roshni:
It's definitely soup weather every day.
Rukmini:
Oh my god, that that's the right word. I love how you think of everything in food.
Rebecca:
Rukmini, could you tell us a little bit more about your book and let our listeners know where they could find you?
Rukmini:
Absolutely, so my book is coming out October 10th. It's available for preorder now. Otherwise it should it's available on Amazon, on Books a Million, Barnes and Noble, any bookstore that you go to, grab a copy. And this book has really been designed for anyone who wants to draw and process their feelings. And again, especially if you're feeling a little uncomfortable, or not used to drawing, then this book is especially for you. And the book goes through a whole journey from learning the basic building blocks of visual language to eventually coming to an acceptance. And my hope is that this book will really be a companion for people who want to learn to draw their feelings, want to express themselves in a safe way, and want to try it through a new tool like drawing and painting. So I invite you, if you're interested to check it out, you can check it out on my website, https://www.dearruksi.com, or follow me on Instagram as well.
Rebecca:
How exciting. Congratulations.
Roshni:
I think it would be a great gift, too. It's like the kind of book I'd want to get as a gift.
Rukmini:
Exactly. If you know anyone in your life who could use it, or you secretly want it, just tell everyone, out it on your Christmas list, the whole thing.
Rebecca:
Yeah, great idea. That's not something that you might seek out for yourself. But what an excellent gift.
Rukmini:
Totally. Yeah, one of my visions always is to see little Draw Your Feelings group gatherings coming from this, or seeing it in a very social setting. I can even imagine dinner parties or something where people can just pull out the book and pass it around and be able to really like spark meaningful conversations. For me, this is like, my favorite part of doing this work, is seeing that people suddenly, you have something to talk about. Because the minute you have a drawing, now, what's in your heart gets externalized. And now it's easy to talk about it, easier to be like “this is a picture of this emotion, of this grief, of this love, of this joy, of like all the mysteries inside of me.” And I think that itself is such a huge tool for people to create connection with each other.
Roshni:
Yeah, I'm so glad you said that, that it's meant to be shared and witnessed. I think that was my favorite part when you led us through the workshop in the Dinner Party event. And I had my cup of chai, like all this saffron cardamom chai, and we're drawing our heart feelings. And then people showed their drawings that they made and talked a little bit about what was coming up. It's those sip ’n paint things but it just a really more profound way. And I think there's so much power in just saying something about your art. And then people look at it, and just acknowledging that as a group.
Rukmini:
Yeah, that's the most powerful feeling, is just being able to be seen. And again, it changes what we think that art has to be. It doesn't have to be on a pedestal, doesn't have to be this like extremely beautiful thing, just has to be honest. And I think when someone has honest art that they show, it's so deeply connecting, and really touching.
Rebecca:
Wow, thank you so much for joining us, Rukmini, this has been such a beautiful conversation. And I really am coming away with it feeling like tapping into that honesty within yourself, being brave enough to express it, and then bringing it into a shared communal situation. It's really inspiring to me.
Rukmini:
Ah, Thank you.
Roshni:
Yeah, thank you so much. This was so beautiful. I'm so excited for the book. I'm going to be painting with my gin tonic. Join us all.
Rebecca:
We'll have to have a kitchari ball dinner party with tortilla chips.
Roshni:
It’s a whole mood.
Rukmini:
That sounds incredible. Yeah, thank you both so much. This was such a joy, and I've been doing a few podcasts just preparing for the book, but I loved this. I think you guys have asked such great personal questions, talking about grief and food and all of this, I was like wow, this is what I want to talk about, how emotions intersect with every part of our life, so thank you guys.
Roshni:
We hope you'll join us every month. We're so excited to chat to all our guests, and we have such a wonderful lineup. So please send us an email, get in touch with us if something resonates, if you want to be a guest or share your story, or even have questions— we love, love giving advice if you don't know already. And we're quite good at it too. So if you have a burning question, if you're wondering, you know, how do I make this soup? Or how do I you know, navigate this really deeply challenging moment. We're here for all of it. You can send us a question, email us, and we'll share with all of you just so we feel less alone and more connected.
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